Sunday, April 23, 2017

Words from Brother Savant

Actually, very few American Blacks believe they are original Hebrews. Since slavery time many Blacks have likened their plight to that of the Israelites in Egyptian bondage. That's even reflected in the spirituals of our ancestors. ("Go Down Moses, way down in Egyptland. Tell ole pharaoh "Let my people go!"). This doesn't mean that many Blacks believe LITERALLY that they are descendants of ancient Hebrews of the Old Testament. Now, there are sects of "Black Hebrews" who believe LITERALLY that we are descendants of ancient Hebrews. But those true believers certainly do not number in the millions, or even the hundreds of thousands. They are not even 1% of the 45 million people who make up Black America.  (1 hr ago | post #8959)

In fact, liberalism within the constricting boundaries of capitalism, has been relatively successful. Fights for human and civil rights have been waged under mainly a liberal banner, not a conservative one. But under capitalism liberalism can only a doctrine or banner of reformism. The fight for the eradication of slavery, universal suffrage, women's suffrage, workers rights (including collective bargaining& 8 hour day), ending child labor, civil rights in the 1960s, education, health care were all fought and won under a liberal banner--sometimes by forces to the LEFT of liberalism. But never from the right. But Liberalism limits itself to those concessions that can be made to oppressed communities within the confines of capitalism and the domination of the 1%. Conservatism always stood in opposition to reform. To the Left of liberalism are those who think that MORE is needed that liberalism can achieve under capitalism, but liberalism cannot transcend capitalism. And since capitalism is less and less able or willing to concede liberal reforms, liberalis is exhausted. Conservatism, however, is morphing into fascism because it cannot conserve the established order without increasing impoverishment of the people, without increasing repression. As for homosexuality, it is not being IMPOSED on anyone--at least not by either corporations or the government. It is commonly used as a wedge issue by the Right. Nonetheless, and end to discrimination against gays have (naturally) been waged under a liberal banner. This seems to be a concession that the ruling elite can make since it doesn't touch their wealth and power; and beside, even some of THEIR children may turn out to be gay. It costs little to concede, and popular anti-gay prejudices are on the decline away. No risk at the ballot box.  (1 hr ago | post #93)

YOur comparison with TV is well taken. But let me point out that TV is not a forum, but a medium of entertainment. Even news nowadays tend in that direction, which is why it's sometimes call "infotainment " by critics (and even supporters). However, you can have a panel on TV. And if a particular channel is advertised as BEING a forum channel, then that's what I expect when I turn there. I'd be a doufus to tune into Jerry Springer and expect a forum. So, I wouldn't seek it there. But advertise a show as "forum on crises of Black American" or "Forum on Conflict with North Korea", then that's what I expect to find. Otherwise, call it something else.  (4 hrs ago | post #218)

Now what did I originally expect when I discovered a place call African American Forum? An electronic meeting place where real, rational and intelligent discussions--somet imes heated--of issues essential to the well being of the African American community. Yes, I expected it would sometime get emotional, naturally. But it would maintain the dignity of a forum. It isn't that there would be no "negative posts", but it would be on issues rather than personalities. Maybe some policies are wrong and stupid. To say that is to say something negative, but also true. But I'd better be prepared to EXPLAIN why I see such policies as wrong or stupid, and my argument must be a CRITIQUE of the policy or idea, not an Ad hominem argument (which is a fallacy of relevance). Needless to say, by this criteria personal hate threads simply could not be tolerated. Now, I could be criticized for expecting an African American Forum if this place was not advertised as such. If I enter an Alt right site expecting an African American forum, I'd be a doufus. Or if I entered a political forum expecting a forum on physics or philosophy, I'd be a goof ball. A Nazi who tries to enter TiKKUN, a Jewish forum, would have to be even dumber than OhReally. He could find or start a Nazi forum (if they're able to have forums and not just a hate site). But just as I would not expect Nazis coming as they please to vilify Jews in a Jewish Forum, I don't expect white or anti-Black racists to have full freedom to enter an "African American" forum and venting their hatred against my people. But this place is NOT African American. It doesn't belong to us. And it is not a forum. It should be required to change its name.  (4 hrs ago | post #217)

Notice that in the dictionary (and actual historical forums) the emphasis is on DISCUSSION and ISSUE, usually public or "serious. " Perhaps, there is still confusion about what discussions are. It's not like the drunken noise making at a football game. It's not like the ranting on talk TV (or Topix). Let's take another trip to the dictionary. Well there's the verb form of "to discuss": "to CONSIDER or EXAMINE by talk over, write, debate." This all implies or explicitly means REASONING. And an argument (from Argumentum) in the original and still common sense means not simply disagreement, not always even disagreement, but it does involve a "process of reasoning". Does this mean that things can't get heated and emotional? Of course not! Humans are emotional as well as rational beings. But REASON cannot be cast aside, but must remain CENTRAL in the exchange between discussants and debaters. if this doesn't happen then you have no real discussion, at least nothing suitable for a forum. And, in the end, you have no forum. Such is the case with the so-called African American forum. Once in a while, and usually for only short periods, do you have anything that can be legitimately called "forum-like " activity. That happens in threads started by myself and some others. But it is short-lived and the exception, not the rule. As I stated in another thread by the same title: "African American Forum is NEITHER AA nor a Forum."  (4 hrs ago | post #216)

It is an electronic circus, not a forum. And of those "thousands " of forums you think are out there< most are (like this one) forums in name only. If you study the history of forums, or even look up the meaning(s) of forum in a good old fashioned Webster dictionary, you will see that this place doesn't meet the standard. Now there are many kinds of forums. But while there are many kinds of forums there are some features all must have to be a forum--just as there are common features that ANY democracy must have to be a democracy, and any science must have to be a science (however much difference there is between biology, physics, astronomy etc). A forum can be a court or tribunal. An academic seminar is a forum. A community can meet in a public place and have a forum. Even a newspaper can be a forum. And yes, you CAN an online forum. But what are some of the conditions that MUST be met if it is a forum at all. I won't rehearse actual historical forums as this would take too long. But consider Webster: a. meeting place for DISCUSSION of matters of public interest or a means through which such discussion can be conducted. (My old 2000 edition version of Webster lists newspapers as one such means, but I think it can include internet). b. a public meeting or assembly for such discussion c. a DISCUSSION of a public issue or other serious topic...etc. Notice the persistence of DISCUSSION--not simply spouting, not name calling offered as debate, not saying anything that you please regardless of whether you can substantiate your claims, or regardless of its relevance (or lack thereof) to the "public issue" or "other serious topic" for which the forum is assembled to discuss. Different kinds of forums, of course. But not everything which calls itself a forum is one. Hence the Forum in ancient Rome met at least modicum of what is required, as did the popular assemblies and courts in Athens. The village assemblies in sub-Saharan Africa (where they still function) are forums. (Fanon discusses such briefly in THE WRETCHED OF THE EARTH). The Philosophy Club, History Club and other student organizations are forums. They have DISCUSSIONS, ranting . Civic associations are, or often have, forums. I participated at forums of the American Philosophical Association in Baltimore this past January, and numerous forums via WEAA 88.9 in Bmore. I've ORGANIZED forums myself. NONE operate that "AA Forum" because they were REAL forums, and AA forum is not.  (4 hrs ago | post #215)

Correction: A strip club "CAN'T call itself a church or a university." Similarly this place shouldn't be allowed to call itself an "African American Forum" when it is not.  (5 hrs ago | post #213)

In fact, I ws gone for months and returned only recently. Topix, like cable and most internet sources, is TRASH. Yet just as you can find intelligent people and conversation even on TV or, you can find it here. And I've met some very good people here; intelligent men and women of sound mind and character, some of whom I speak to outside this so-called forum. And a couple of them I've even met in person. Among those persons are Harrisson, EkdesiLadki, NotsoDivine, SoulBrotherinLondo n(a musician from UK who never comes here any more) and a few others. The problem is that this place calls itself a FORUM. It should be REQUIRED (legally if possible) to change its name, or to actually BECOME what its name says it is. You don't get to put a ginger label on a bottle of whiskey, and a strip club can call itself a church or university. This white corporate owned circus ought not to be allowed to call itself an "African American Forum" when it's NEITHER African American nor a forum.

Or maybe a CLASS WAR since the privileged-male and female, white and black and other--have their collective foot on the necks of the masses.  (6 hrs ago | post #337)

Il Duce Don Trump makes himself look stupid and now has no credibility among most Americans, is only popular among a minority of the DUMBEST Americans. But you're probably too dumb to notice. LOL! Too bad you lack a "50 cents education". You might be able to elevate yourself above the level of America's dumbest citizens  (6 hrs ago | post #335)

OK, I sent you the piece by Angela Davis on Freedom, and some other things as well. You know, I'm expecting to be on paid leave in Fall. Time to do some research and some further community engagement. We spoke before of trying to form a new forum--a REAL forum rather than this bogus outfit. Maybe we should return to this idea  (16 hrs ago | post #336)



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